Hi John:

I want to take a second to respond to both of your comments here since I'm the moderator here for the day and since I've been in on the discussion from the beginning (Terri, with an "i" not a "y"!).

I think you may have misunderstood Heather's discussion of the culture as it relates to this passage. What Heather is trying to do is understand how the passage would have been understood and applied by the first readers/hearers and then move from that to applying it to our world today. This is a perfectly legitimate strategy within a historical/grammatical/literary hermeneutic and something we should pay attention to in all passages, not just ones that are difficult for us. I think if you read Heather's post and comments carefully, you'll find that she is not trying to claim the text to be "cultural" and thus not applicable today, but rather is trying to figure out how it applies in specific situations, i.e how we can be faithful and obedient to the text today. 

As to your other points about the Greek, I think Heather's comment to you and my comments back and forth cover the issue adequately.

Finally, I want to address the tone and rhetoric of your comments. The hostility and condescension with which you address the author is frankly an unacceptable way for a Christian brother to address a fellow-worker and quite honestly renders your arguments to be less persuasive. You will note that in the comments I came to similar conclusions as you about the translation Heather was proposing but did so without insulting her intelligence or resorting to sarcasm. Just to be clear I want to list some quotations from your comment that represent the type of tone that is unacceptable on Tapestry:

      The authoress (who seems to know little Greek).....

I just bring it up as a good example of dumb arguments of people who ignorantly appeal to culture, ignore the text, and especially when they don't even know about the culture. Sheesh guys! Be more careful with God's Word, okay?

And as to all the different people trying to handle Greek, this really makes me want to buck-up and study hard so as not to err. Thanks for that.

I'm not going to spend anytime defending Heather's ability with the Greek text (though I know her to be quite competent after 5 semesters at DTS), but I will say that most people who are priviledged to work with the original languages of the Scripture do so humbly recognizing the challenges it brings.

Here's the thing John (and anyone else still reading this far down!): at Tapestry we welcome disagreements, differences of opinions, and corrections where and when we make mistakes but we expect and demand that these be communicated respectfully and graciously and without personal insults, undue sarcasm, and/or namecalling. We want to have a conversation that is open yet civil with the same courtesies you would give a friend you were talking with at the dinner table. I am confident we can have a fruitful conversation about evidence and methodology without the extra rhetoric.   

Thanks,

Terri Moore