Leon:

It is hard to have a discussion with someone who summarizes the argument of others by misrepresenting it. Nowhere did I say the gospels bungled the presentation of the temple charge. In fact, I am arguing they have carefully recorded what took place by noting that the case was pursued on the temple and then dropped for lack of consistency in the case. The Jewish leadership was sharp enough to know if they had a good case to take to Pilate. In addition, I have noted that the Arabic text is late (10 the century) and that what Josephus is said to have claimed has corroborative parallels in what our other sources from the gospels also say. That does constitute two good arguments about the Josephan text. (Remember arguemtns are weighed, not merely counted). I also raised the argument that your appeal to Florus (which postdates the time of Jesus and so hardly trumps the situation) ignores the fact taht Jesus' temple act challenges Jewish officials and their authority in a way most activity by others aimed exclusively at Rome did not (yet another solidly grounded historical observation). Finally, at no point in official Jewish materials or in the debates with Jews we possess is there any indication they tried to exonerate Jesus before Rome. Even the Talmud mentions in two locales that Jesus was charged with being a sorcerer, a charge the gospels also echoe in the claim that Jesus does miracles from Beelzebul. Finally, in the temple incident we are not dealing with Jesus' critique of the temple as a verbal exercise as is the case with the examples you raise, but as an act in the sacred precincts, a locale where the leadership was charged to keep the peace. That is a horse of a different color. So you may continue to characterize the issues I put forward as irrelevant or as dismissive of evidence, even though they are relevant factors to consider, but many of the charges you make actually have a look of the pot calling the kettle black.  Let's just put it this way. I am not persuaded by what you bring forward and the same is true in reverse for your assessment of what I have raised. Others can judge who maks the case, not an exercise of power, but one of rational argument.

dlb