For thirty years W. Hall Harris III has taught on the faculty of Dallas Theological Seminary in the New Testament Studies Department. Since 1995 he has served as Project Director and Managing Editor for the NET Bible at bible.org passionately steering this revolutionary Bible from inception to global impact. Dr. Harris has traveled extensively in Western Europe, especially in Germany and Italy. And as an ordained minister he has served over the years as pastor of single adults, elder, and adult Sunday school teacher.
I think anyone who reads all these posts would reasonably conclude that it would be more effective to talk about some real verses (one or two). All this semantic shuffling does little to illustrate anyone's point. Unless I know how you are translating a given verse, I have no basis for knowing whether any of you (or me!) have any idea what we are talking about.
I think we are experiencing discussion-death by abstraction.
-B